skip to main content
Foto
Foto
Magazine
Ultimi Articoli
Discussioni Houzz
Ricerche Houzz
Accedi
Houzz Logo Print
Esplora le discussioni
alberi
aztec

Arbutus trees are looking.... bad

aztec
7 anni fa
Ultima modifica:7 anni fa

Location: Rancho Santa Fe (inland coastal San Diego county).

We have a grouping of three arbutus, planted in a slightly raised planter (18" retaining wall on the downhill side of a slight slope). They are about 15' tall x 12' wide, planted several years ago. They have been gorgeous, until recently. Now there are lots of dead brown leaves and entire small branches that are nothing but brown. Despite that, they're pushing out new growth. This made me think it could be one of the fungi problems, but I sure can't tell. Some of the leaves have black spots. Internet-based research so far has suggested more and less watering. Doh!

The previous owner of the house has both heavy rotating sprays and bubblers for these trees (about 2' from the trunk). We've lived here 18 months and immediately reduced the irrigation to them. We haven't watered them much at all, and they looked great in the Fall. The soil around them is damp, possibly from 1" of rain last week and some irrigation zone testing yesterday. The soil is not soaked, although it is wetter by the trunk (probably from the bubbler test). Each tree has a breather tube. The natural litter around them is fairly heavy, and when pushed aside has some white-ish stuff on the decaying leaves (guessing that's normal). When I dug down to check soil dryness, I noted considerable fine rooting right near the surface. I had thought these trees had mostly deep roots.

Losing these trees would be a disaster on many levels. They're the cornerstone of our landscaping and screen road traffic. Anything else I can tell you? Thanks for any help.

Risposta in evidenza
  • User
    7 anni fa
    Ultima modifica: 7 anni fa

    This is surely the only madrone in Cambridge...if not East Anglia

    Cheers for the cuttings info.

    Commenti (40)

    • davidrt28 (zone 7)
      7 anni fa
      Ultima modifica: 7 anni fa

      You should probably post to the California forum, there might be more expertise there. They don't look like a lost cause yet. If they are 'Marina' or A. X andrachnoides they are certainly capable of surviving with minimal watering there, but maybe they were used to being over-watered by the prior owner? They wouldn't hav e grown deep roots unless they'd had to. Root rot can be caused acutely by over-watering, long-term by under watering followed by heavy rain or irrigation, especially at the wrong time of year - basically any unnatural (for that species) pattern of watering. Maybe something about changing patterns of irrigation and rain is upsetting them.

      Another factor: although said to be somewhat lime tolerant, ultimately, they are still members of the Ericaceae/Blueberry/Heath family, and prefer not to have alkaline soil. Rainwater is acidic. Maybe w/CA getting some good rains it will help them perk back up.

    • aztec
      Autore originale
      7 anni fa

      Thanks, I will post over there. They look much worse in person. Rains? Mehhh. El Nino was kind of a sham. We got about our typical rainfall this last year (same as the year before -- not terrible, just ordinary).


      I've also posted pics of the leaves. Brown tips, with new growth pushing out right next to it.

    • Mike McGarvey
      7 anni fa

      They normally shed old leaves about this time of year to help them get through the dry summers. That, and untimely not watering are the probable causes in my opinion. They thrive on dry summers and damp winters....at least here in western Washington.


    • Jean
      7 anni fa

      Chronic drought stress.

      They were previously well-watered, then the water was abruptly decreased. Should have gradually weaned them off.

      Consider contacting a Certified Arborist who knows about your kid of trees and maintaining them in a landscape.

    • davidrt28 (zone 7)
      7 anni fa
      Ultima modifica: 7 anni fa

      I think Jean is probably right. But the tricky thing is they would be heading into their dry season now anyhow, so it's not like you can "fix" the problem by suddenly opening the proverbial floodgates at this point. This is especially the case if, as I've just realized, these might be the west coast native A. menziesii. It is the least tolerant to summer water. 'Marina' is the next most intolerant. Any other Arbutus you'd encounter in the trade is at least somewhat summer watering tolerant and grows in the SE US. (that being said, I can't tell them apart from these pics)

      So it might be better to let them look a little bedraggled over summer and then fix the problem next fall.

    • Sara Malone Zone 9b
      7 anni fa

      That's almost certainly 'Marina' - A. menziesii doesn't really exist in cultivation and those are the only two with bark like that. If you try to co-opt it, sometimes, (i.e. leave an existing plant in situ and 'garden' around it) but it's just not transplantable. I have dozens of 'Marina' and they get regular summer irrigation, albeit by drip and only weekly. I would water now (we just had rain last week up north) and deep water biweekly during the summer. If you cut out the dead tissue it will make you feel better! Contacting an arborist who knows this type of tree is a good idea as well.

    • aztec
      Autore originale
      7 anni fa

      I can't tell which species it is, but the trunks aren't very red and smooth like the Marinas I see in pics. The bark is much more brownish red, with fine peeling everywhere. I re-posted over the CA forum, with two soil test results as well.

      http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3896277/m=23/arbutus-trees-were-great-now-looking-bad

    • davidrt28 (zone 7)
      7 anni fa
      Ultima modifica: 7 anni fa

      Sara,

      Thanks, your experience in such conditions of course far exceeds my own. Me and a couple other east coast experimenters have tried 'Marina' and it is usually known to die in its first summer outside. It must be a combination of both the humidity and the summer watering. I personally think it must be a hybrid involving either A. canariensis or even A. menziesii. Hybrids between the former and A. unedo have been found in the Canary Islands. The behavior of A. X andrachnoides and A. unedo is quite different. They will grow on rather heavy soils around here, no problem. Greece is actually very muggy in summer (albeit drought striken) so you wouldn't expect A. andrachnes to impart a lot of hot and wet sensitivity to A. X andrachnoides. The Canary Islands, OTOH, never have high dewpoints and are like California in that regard. (they can have high humidities of course, in the laurisilva)

      I knew the native Madrone was rare in cultivation, but certainly not impossible to find, either:

      http://www.laspilitas.com/nature-of-california/plants/35--arbutus-menziesii

    • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
      7 anni fa

      I think the plant in question is Arbutus unedo, which is much more scaled down, shrubbier and unkempt looking compared to 'Marina', which in the San Diego area should be a pretty good sized tree rather than a 15' shrub. And the bark description (and appearance) fits as well. Both Marina and A. unedo are recognized as being significantly drought tolerant with reports of them never being irrigated after establishment and still thriving. In my area, these typically exist with no irrigation outside of natural rainfall and that's concentrated in the winter months.

      Not knowing what the previous irrigation practice was, both selections are very resentful of wet soils and these can - and usually do - lead to several fungal issues, including root rots and a variety of leaf spots.

      I would suggest pruning out the dead wood and the badly disfigured foliage and see how the shrubs respond to the reduced watering this season.

    • davidrt28 (zone 7)
      7 anni fa
      Ultima modifica: 7 anni fa

      "compared to 'Marina', which in the San Diego area should be a pretty good sized tree rather than a 15' shrub."

      Agreed but the posters "planted several years ago" seem to imply to me it was fairly recent...so I assumed they hadn't had time to grow that big yet.

      Are 'Marina' very common yet in the PNW? If so how fast do they grow? Faster than any other Madrone?

      At any rate I was hesitant to commit myself to an ID: one of the things I noticed when I was out in CA is that even in person I sometimes had trouble telling them apart. In the wild there are big CA Madronas that look more like big A. unedos and some that look more like big A. 'Marinas'. The bark color and leaf size is variable. And even various clones of A. unedo can look quite different, some forms seem to stay stuck with 'juvenile' foliage.

    • Sara Malone Zone 9b
      7 anni fa

      I really don't think that is is unedo. I have over 100 unedo (nursery nearby went out of business 18 years ago and I bought them in #5s for $2 each and lined our long driveways with them!) and I've never seen one with showy bark. I have probably 20 'Marina', most of which are well under 20' tall. The bark, leaves and spent flowers in the photo are 'Marina'. A. unedo is much more tolerant of poor drainage than 'Marina' (in fact I would consider unedo bullet-proof in this region). 'Marina' needs to drain, so I plant it on mounds, but eventually it makes its way into our clay soil. If the drainage is good, summer water not a problem. I have never lost any of them, have never fertilized any of them, some of the 'Marina' get a goodly dose of summer water and some get virtually none. We are not as hot as the OP. We've all tried to grow A. menziesii around here because the native madrone is so beloved. I don't know anyone who has succeeded for more than a year or so, and nurserymen all say it is not feasible commercially. 'Marina' can certainly get pretty large, but not quickly. Attached is a good write up by San Marcos, with most of what is known about it. The original write-up by the Saratoga Horticultural Foundation, which introduced this cultivar, is on the web as well. Arbutus 'Marina' by San Marcos Growers If it were me, I would water them, especially if they were used to getting water. Don't know if you're up for it, but 'Marina' roots from cuttings so you could start some new ones!

    • User
      7 anni fa

      What sort of cuttings, Sara? I ask because in my city, there is a truly astonishing arbutus - not unedo either, which is the only variety I have seen apart from a couple of arachnoides in Cornwall. Astonishingly, this tree (which, to my mind, is the very best tree in a city of astounding varieties) grows on chalk in a perfectly ordinary garden (not some arboretum or hallowed college garden). I pay homage to it every time I pass and will certainly ask the owners for permission to take a cutting...so hardwood, softwood? semi-ripe?

    • davidrt28 (zone 7)
      7 anni fa
      Ultima modifica: 7 anni fa

      Interesting continued discussion. Pursuant to what I said before, I've seen A. unedo plants with more attractive bark and some with less attractive bark.
      Though none as show as 'Marina' or A. X andrachoides. Sara maybe all of your plants were cutting propagated and all look the same. https://davisla.wordpress.com/category/arbutus-unedo/

      FWIW I saw the same variability of bark color on Arbutus texensis in Big
      Bend NP. Some were a stunning deep red other an indifferent
      orange-brown.

      It's interesting to know that even in California, drainage is an issue for A. 'Marina'. To me it really looks quite different from A. X andrachnoides and I believe I'm not the only skeptic about it being that hybrid; I think ALJ speculates along similar lines. My A. X andrachnoides died in the first cold winter; but until than had no problem in a spot with rather heavy soil by the standards of my yard. I have no doubt 'Marina' would have been kaput because it even died for someone around here with sandy soil. I'm resigned to just having an A. unedo in a sheltered spot. It was killed down to the stubs in the cold winters but vigorously resprouted, and of course survived two years of that in a row. I hope the form I have, 'Elfin King', will someday have nice bark. But I mainly grow it for the fruits which I think are, for the lamentable lack of a better term, adorable.

      PS Sara I'm jealous of your garden; sounds like you should name the place 'Arbutus Acres' LOL.

    • aztec
      Autore originale
      7 anni fa

      Here's another picture of the bark. Hopefully that helps identify it. It's actually more red that I had thought. I have cleared away some of the natural litter around the trunk.

    • davidrt28 (zone 7)
      7 anni fa
      Ultima modifica: 7 anni fa

      IMHO it must be 'Marina'. This view clarifies that.

    • davidrt28 (zone 7)
      7 anni fa

      While the native madrone is being discussed, a couple pics from my visit to CA. I'm so glad I was out there when they were in bloom, they are surely one of the most beautiful North American trees.


      It's even more odd to me now that they are considered hard to grow, as they sort of seem like a common roadside weed in many places. (it's easy to spot them in bloom) The same is certainly not true of the southeastern natives considered hard to grow, like Elliottia.

    • Sara Malone Zone 9b
      7 anni fa

      Many California natives resent being transplanted or grown in cultivation. Despite the dozens (if not hundreds) of Arctostaphylos (manzanita), only a few are considered reliable as reasonably long-lived garden plants. Ceanothus has similar issues and is generally short-lived. Re: cuttings - I think hardwood. I have friends who have done it and they harvest in winter so that would mean hard. Good thought on mine all coming from the same source - although none were labeled and I found out after they were in the ground for several years that a handful were 'Compacta' or some other dwarf. It made for a funny break in the hedge! I have one Arbutus arizonica, in the ground for two years, which looks completely different.

    • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
      7 anni fa

      David, both A. unedo and Marina are relatively widely planted here in the Puget Sound area, unedo probably more so than the hybrid. It is extremely unusual to see Marina in anything other than a single trunked form, which is why I am inclined to consider the OP's plants unedos....although since Sara is far more familiar with the SoCal situation, I am happy to accept her ID :-) btw, that bark effect is typically seen on mature unedos here - flaky brownish bark, peeling to reveal that deep cinnamon red underbark.

      FWIW, the visuals and descriptions of the ailments of the OP's trees look identical to many of the pathogenic issues that plague arbutus in this area, especially our Pacific madrone (which are omnipresent in my area) - it is virtually impossible to locate one that is not afflicted to some degree by a wide assortment of fungal pathogens, to the point where many are more dead than alive, unfortunately.

      Both unedo and Marine are less troubled by these issues than our native but will still develop similar problems if excess water is the cause. And it generally is - IME, minimal irrigation is ever required for these trees and soils must be fast draining for them to tolerate our wet winters.

    • User
      7 anni fa

      Which is possibly why this tree is surviving in relatively arid East Anglia. FWIW, I have only ever seen arbutus in Cornwall and Devon...and in that acidic, peaty soil, they are far less imposing than my local specimen. Honestly, this tree is just so...unlikely, that I have to get off my bike to pay personal homage every time I cycle by.

    • Sara Malone Zone 9b
      7 anni fa

      All my 'Marina' are multi-trunked - the nurseries sell them in both standards and multis. I mostly see the standards as street trees. I think that per garden gal's comments, drainage is really key, especially up there where your rainy season is more pronounced. San Diego County should be a good spot for most Arbutus, but it is so much drier and hotter there that I really do think that irrigation is necessary. This is also a bad time of year for both 'Marina' and unedo aesthetically, as Mike noted above - they are dropping their old leaves, and when a broad-leaved evergreen drops old leaves, it really stands out. A good shake of every reachable branch is in order!


    • davidrt28 (zone 7)
      7 anni fa
      Ultima modifica: 7 anni fa

      Campanula, thanks for the picture. I didn't know those trees were rare in your part of the British Isles.

      I saw a large, beautiful Arbutus in Rye, UK in 2010...but then a couple years ago someone on the GOTE forum reported it had died! I suspect that they must get more susceptible to over-watering and excess rainfall and/or anoxic soil and/or inconsistent watering when they get larger. Because, for example, my young A. X andrachnoides sailed through the absurd amounts of rainfall we had around Hurricane Irene and Tropical Storm Lee. That period killed several young rhododendrons. It also explains why older plants are rare in the SE US, even though small ones are sold by nurseries and certainly thrive in their earlier years in gardens where any typical PNW rhododendron cultivar would die the first summer. (only the aforementioned varieties that do well in the SE of course! Unedo and the hybrid.) Maybe part of the reason they are trouble free in Norcal is it most closely follows the rainfall patterns they have in their native habitat...the PNW is much rainier in winter than the bulk of Spain and Portugal. Yes, ecotypes of it grow in remote parts of Ireland...but I doubt all of the horticultural forms derived from those.

    • User
      7 anni fa

      Arbutus unedo crops up more frequently...but rarely of any substantial size. Flora may have more familiarity, dwelling in the gentle south (ahem) rather than flat, dry, windy and chalky East Anglia.

      Now, if I could also grow the Chilean myrtle - luma apiculata, I would clearly have expired and found myself in horticultural heaven.

    • floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
      7 anni fa

      This is A unedo growing outside my doctor's surgery and visible from my upstairs windows. It's been pruned many times and would be taller if it had been left alone. As you can see they took off a large trunk on the right. Never appears to have any problems at all from anything. There are several more in local parks.

    • Sara Malone Zone 9b
      7 anni fa

      Campanula I do love my Luma...and in San Francisco where it doesn't freeze, they are magnificent. I have the basic aciculata and also a variegated cultivar called 'Glanleam Gold'. It's shrubby so I've not got the lovely bark that the bigger species develops. But you can grow so many things over there that we can only dream of...

    • aztec
      Autore originale
      7 anni fa

      As follow up, I'm fairly sure mine are Marina. And that they have been underwatered, despite their status as low water trees. I'm trying a heavy soaking and drying out cycle to see how they fare.

    • missionmom
      7 anni fa

      Sara, would you mind posting some photos of your marinas? I've been wanting to try one for a long time but am zone 7/8 with much debate, and they have a reputation along with our native madrones as being next to impossible to grow (I'm just outside of Vancouver, bc). I just think they are such a beautiful tree! I've read that they require a mycohhrizal (sorry spelling?) relationship with a specific organism in order to flourish... Or so 'they' say of our native madrones. Now the arbutus unedo, I have a couple of them. They are lovely but just don't quite compare to the photos above in terms of cinnamon bark color. I'm excited by the prospect that patience with the unedos will yield richer colored bark!

    • davidrt28 (zone 7)
      7 anni fa
      Ultima modifica: 7 anni fa

      I would love to see Sara's Madronas too, but I tend to avoid asking people for pictures because I know it can be a hassle to get them. Not criticizing you at all missionmom, actually just pointing out I'm another person who would like to see them but hadn't asked until now.

      I think 'Marina' was on a list of plants JC Raulston formulated shortly before his death as candidates to be grafted for root survival in the SE US. Onto A. unedo. Maybe the same approach could be helpful in the PNW with the native madrone or 'Marina'. I would not have thought 'Marina' was considered hard to grow in Vancouver.

    • Sara Malone Zone 9b
      7 anni fa

      I'll see what I already have - I am a horrible photographer! Let me see what I can find.

    • Sara Malone Zone 9b
      7 anni fa

      Here's one - I'll keep looking. This went in as a #15 about 4 1/2 years ago.

    • Sara Malone Zone 9b
      7 anni fa

      These are all of the same tree, and are 3-4 years old. This was planted as a #15 in 1999. It's now the largest 'Marina' that I have. The photo in the post above is also 'Marina'. My blog partner, Jan LeCocq, took the top photo and the one above. The out of focus ones are mine!

    • Sara Malone Zone 9b
      7 anni fa

      For comparison, here is a large Arbutus unedo, one of the ones that I planted in 1998 as a #5. I limbed it up a few years ago. The leaves are much smaller and nowhere near as shiny as 'Marina'. The flowers are also smaller. The fruit is very similar.


    • aztec
      Autore originale
      7 anni fa

      Following up on this, after several months. Opinions varied on whether they needed water or should be left alone. I opted for watering. A lot -- both the sprays and additional heavy water by hand and some deep soaker hose time. They started to improve and show some new growth maybe two months later. I'd say by now that are 75% back.

      The lesson here is that arbutus trees are not THAT low water or drought tolerant. If I had opted to keep the very low water, I'd be out $30,000 of trees.

    • missionmom
      7 anni fa

      Oh wow... I am just seeing these photos now!! What incredible specimens you have Sara, and many thanks for sharing them!!!

    • davidrt28 (zone 7)
      7 anni fa
      Ultima modifica: 7 anni fa

      Thanks for the update aztec, glad to know your trees are recovering.

      "The lesson here is that arbutus trees are not THAT low water or drought tolerant."

      The lesson is also that it depends on the locations of these plants. In the PNW or UK, Arbutus probably are considered quite drought tolerant. In San Diego county - average annual rainfall 10 inches, warm and sunny most of the year - not so much!

    • Sara Malone Zone 9b
      7 anni fa

      Also, even the most drought tolerant plants generally need reasonably significant water to get established. Trees that can take next to no summer water once mature often have to be helped through the first couple of summers.

    • aztec
      Autore originale
      7 anni fa

      Yes, Sarah, agreed. These have been in the ground for at least 3 years, probably 5-7. They did so well without irrigation for a year, so I got lulled into thinking they needed less than they do.The deficit eventually accumulated and showed. Hopefully they make it all the way back.

    • PRO
      Eve's Garden Design
      5 anni fa

      Could be fireblight, common in these trees. Are the tips of branches burnt looking and shaped like a candy cane? Check the UCANR website for info on identifying and treating.

    • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
      5 anni fa

      "Could be fireblight, common in these trees".

      I don't think so. Unless a very new discovery that has not yet been widely published, the bacteria that results in fire blight only affects members of the Rose family (Rosaceae). Arbutus is a member of the Heath family (Ericaceae), so would not be affected by this pathogen.

    • PRO
      Eve's Garden Design
      5 anni fa

      You are right, my mistake. Thank you for the correction. Arbutus and manzanita is my area are showing blackened branch die-off, looks very similar to fire blight but is likely fungal.

    Sponsorizzato

    Ricarica la pagina per non vedere più questo specifico annuncio

    Italia
    Personalizza la mia esperienza utilizzando cookie

    Houzz utilizza cookie e tecnologie simili per personalizzare la mia esperienza, fornire contenuti per me rilevanti e migliorare i prodotti e i servizi di Houzz. Premendo su "Accetta", acconsento all'utilizzo dei cookie, descritto ulteriormente nell'Informativa sui cookie. Posso rifiutare i cookie non necessari cliccando su "Imposta le preferenze".