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tracyz

Need Advice on 1 year old Bluestone Patio Flaking and Chipping

Tracy Z
8 anni fa







We had a new patio installed last year with PA bluestone (Cut Bluestone Patio MW Tudor Blend with 12x12, 12 x24, and 24x24 pieces with Polymeric HP & XP sand, etc.) and since last year, the bluestone is significantly chipping and flaking away in large chunks. The landscaping company, who's been in business numerous years, reported this is a first they've seen. They are not offering to replace at this time. I researched this for hours on the internet with no signs that is is a normal occurrence for bluestone & I haven't found information on this even occurring on rare occasions. I did see information on quality versus inferior stone, but nothing that says this could or would occur. I called a couple stone places and no one heard of this for bluestone. I took it into a local brick and stone company, that also reported he hasn't seen this before. He reported my product does look like PA bluestone.


The landscaping company consulted with the quarry representative who recommended the landscaping company power wash the chips off and seal afterwards, as this should help it stop. They power washed the patio to get rid of the flakes that are coming off in large chunks. Afterwards, it pretty much looks like a sunburnt patio, as you can see the areas where they sprayed the layers off. In addition, a novice must have sprayed it, as they left graffiti like marks in some places. Although the landscaping company denies this or doesn't address it at all. They now say we should seal it as the representative from where they bought this so called bluestone; I am not sealing as it looks terrible. It is still coming off in chunks. I took a picture of pieces I just got off the patio the other day. No force required for them to easily pop off.


Please advise. Has anyone heard of this type of occurrence for bluestone? No chemicals or products have been on this patio. I live in Virginia and our temps are mild overall.


I am in need of advise and feedback. The owner of the quarry where this product was purchased by the landscaping company sent us a letter and reported leading causes of this issues are salt for snow removal and animal waste. Salt has never hit this patio and we do have dogs, but they have never or would they ever urinate or defecate on our patio.


I think this needs replacing as it looks terrible and more importantly the integrity of the stone is impacted by continued chunks coming off and the power washing didn't help any with the lines the nozzle must have left on some areas.


Risposta in evidenza
  • thomas_crowley34
    8 anni fa

    My bluestone looks exactly like the pictures from Tracy above. I decided to put a sealer on it to protect it from the winter about 5 days ago. In the last 5 days, the areas that have peeled are all white - like salt is coming through the affected areas that have peeled. And this is a porch that is under cover and built on top of a concrete slab - so it is not sitting in any soil or anything. And it doesn't get wet every time it rains or anything like that. I have no idea why it deteriorated so quickly after 10 years. It looked basically new last fall and in 1 year it looks like it has to be torn up and replaced

    Commenti (58)

    • Tracy Z
      Autore originale
      8 anni fa
      Sorry-didn't finish post. I suspect we'll have continued issues in the years to come, especially considering this patio is very new. The quarry and landscaping company are not our favorites & difficult to deal with on so many levels. Thanks for the feedback.
    • PRO
      Arbordale Landscaping
      8 anni fa

      @atmoscat We have several different products here in Toronto that we use. There are local limestones and sandstones readily available, but they are at a premium. The India stone that is coming over is quite cost effective and comes in a variety of colours. I would go and visit a local stone supplier to see what options they have to provide.

    • PRO
      Arbordale Landscaping
      8 anni fa

      @tracyZ I'm sorry for being the bearer of bad news. Because it is such a large patio it is likely not worth it to replace all of the stone. Perhaps if you change a few a year, it wont be a detriment to your wallet, and over time you can weed out some of the bad stone. Good luck.

    • PKponder TX Z7B
      8 anni fa

      We thought that the flaking was the nature of bluestone. It reminds me of slate.

    • patty_cakes42
      8 anni fa

      I think the Arbordale landscaping person has hit the nail on the head re:

    • patty_cakes42
      8 anni fa

      Whoops! As I was saying, re:moisture. My patio is doing fine, absolutely no chipping. The walkway is the problem, and it's laid in crushed granite, which probably retains the moisture as much as sand. The patio is laid in cement. I believe it's called Texas or Austin limestone, as I know there's a lot of it mined 'here', meaning Tx OR Austin, never asked the landscaper specifics. With all the rain we've had I have't been out to inspect any new damage. Am almost afraid to look!

    • PRO
      GorgeousGarden.net
      8 anni fa

      This condition is typically seen when you apply ice melter to bluestone in northern climates. You will typically see this due to the immediate refreeze of the melted ice that permeates the stone pores. A suggestion would be to seal the bluestone with a natural stone sealant, and using salt alternatives on the stone. areas, Hope this helps. Good Luck

    • Tracy Z
      Autore originale
      8 anni fa
      In our situation, the bluestone was less than one year old and we've never used any salt or even salt alternative on the patio. Truly it's had little use or traffic and definitely no salt or chemicals of any kind applied.
    • ab83048
      8 anni fa

      I have a 50 year old enclosed patio that has Bluestone pavers.

      the pavers have been flaking for years and it's just the nature of the Bluestone, there's no stopping the flaking even the application of a sealer won't prevent this occurrence

      If it was not such a difficult and expensive project i would remove and replace it with solid stone or ceramic pavers

      i also worked in the stone tile business for a number of years and saw this on many occasions

      Bluestone is a beautiful product however there's very few times when it does not flake away

    • PRO
      JSL Landscape Design Build
      8 anni fa

      There is only one material I advocate to my clients who want a patio and that is concrete pavers. After I go through all the horror stories about the pitfalls of using slate, bluestone or even flagstone, most people are persuaded to consider an alternative. My warranty is written in such a way that after reading it, no one would even want to risk any of the "problem" stones. There are so many variations and improvements to the surface textures of pavers nowadays that make them a no brainer (at least in my market). I bet that original landscaper no longer does bluestone patios or talks people out of wanting one.

    • gail_daphne
      8 anni fa

      I am also having problems with a bluestone patio. It was installed a year and a half ago. We used thermal bluestone. We were told that the thermal was a better option because it doesn't flake and holds up better than the 2" blue select that we have on a covered porch. We have had no issues with the stone on our front porch which was installed 10 years ago (The stair treads and edging on the porch are thermal bluestone). Our patio, however, now has at least 5 slabs that are flaking. There were 2 before December. Today, after snow melt, I noticed 3 more. We alerted our landscape contractor about the first 2, and discussed the possibility of taking them up and just flipping them over. Now that I see 3 more, I am really concerned because we have a large patio. We live in New England, but no salt or ice melt has been used on the patio. Ironically, we originally picked out and started installing concrete pavers for the patio. The first day of installation it started raining and they left for the day after putting down about 20 slabs. When it stopped raining and the stones dried I noticed that about 8-9 stones had what looked like white scratches on them. It turned out that salt in the concrete was leeching through the stones. The manufacturer told me that they were defective, but also could not guarantee that that same thing couldn't happen to new stones in the future. So.....we decided to upgrade to the thermal bluestone! I guess the joke is on us!

    • PRO
      Hardscapes By Design
      6 anni fa
      The bluestone is splitting because of bad quality material. There is another quarry out of New York that is more expensive, but it is much less flakey and more durable.
    • PRO
      Jeff Klingel Landscape
      6 anni fa

      I am a contractor that installs this regularly. Recently I had the same problem and replaced the patio. My guess is that the quarry hit a patch of stone that either was not as dense or dried too quickly after harvest. I do not believe this is normal because I have seen many patios much older with no signs of this flaking.

      Good luck.

    • Utente-942777
      5 anni fa

      We have the same problem but only with the bluestone under our upper deck. The bluestone that is around the pool and in the sun is unaffected. The bluestone under the upper deck that is in the shade looks like the first picture. It is all from the same batch. I wonder if it never dries out? Or if one area is on concrete and the other is not? Not sure what to do...

    • PRO
      DesignLovers Blog
      5 anni fa
      HU - what material did you use for the grout?
    • kpohl52
      5 anni fa

      We are experiencing this same dilemma with our bluestone steps, which were just installed late last summer. We did not have a harsh winter in Northeast Ohio, we never applied salt to the steps, but the base step is definitely flaking away. Haven't contacted the landscaper yet - or the quarry, but we intend to once spring finally arrives.

    • Utente-500629757
      4 anni fa

      We're in Georgia (ATL area) & are having the same problem with the flaking/chipping. Our entire patio is under cover so there's not the issue of rain, direct sun, salt or harsh elements. Can't use the blower on it without covering the yard with large pieces as shown in the first pic above. Even using a broom results in pieces coming loose and lots of sandy grit. It's a large porch (10x56) so the thought of replacing it is totally distressing but it's only getting worse. The covered front porch is much smaller (7x10) and there is no flaking. We are the 2nd owners of this house so didn't install it nor do we know where it originated. Is there any kind of sealant that can be used? We do know when the house was built, the back porch was backfilled followed by a concrete slab and then topped with the stone. The front porch is "suspended". Both porches have grout around the stone so it's not possible to just lift up a piece. Don't know what the grout is but can say the grout is fine - no flaking or chipping. Has anyone found any solution to this problem?

    • gtcircus
      4 anni fa
      Interesting thread. I have bluestone countertops in my kitchen - no flaking. But I live up north and my landscaper told me to do concrete on the patio - which is what I did. I stamped and stained it to look like stone. No problems 15 years later.
    • thomas_crowley34
      4 anni fa

      Commenter from Atlanta - I used some sort of sealer from Home Depot - I think it was called 511. sealant Seemed to bead up the rain that got on the stone but didn't stop the decay. My porch has become an eyesore now. Afraid I will have to pay a bunch to rip it all up and re-do it - probably with something other than bluestone next time


    • skihardorgohome
      4 anni fa

      As an installer I can tell you we know when a piece is already separating while installing. Drag a piece of rebar or a hammer across the top of each stone. If it’s hollow, don’t install it.

      If you’re the homeowner, build this into your contract. Also make sure it’s in a full bed of mortar. No hollow sounds. Establish this as an expectation when getting quotes. They’ll then tell their labor. Explain the horror stories. While no one warranties stone, you have a right to state that you expect them to catch material defects prior to installation and defects in workmanship [air gaps preventing the stone from fully bedding in the mortar].
      You may pay an extra few dollars a sf, but it’s been my experience that most homeowners looking for a Thermal cut flagstone patio won’t haggle over a few extra dollars per sf.

      I’ll stop short of requiring them to back butter every stone, but will require that they test each stone for no hollow sound as I drag a 1-2’ metal bar (or hammer, chisel, whatever).

      New jobs, make sure to use a sealer. Period...the end. ;)

    • sallyannroberts16
      4 anni fa

      Tracey,


      Please tell me how you've resolved this issue.....we had a huge bluestone patio installed 3 summer ago and it continues to peel and chip, even to this day. It looks horrible.

    • kuhn74
      3 anni fa

      We are having a very similar problem. We have an entirely new patio of Pennsylvania bluestone. The area which is undercover is disintegrating. Any stone pieces which are exposed to the elements are fine. ALL of the stones under the porch have a very thick layer of fine dust daily which we have to shop vacuum to control. Chipping as well. No dogs; no salt. Same batch of stone. Again our landscaper has never seen this. He brought several sealers to try but we are reluctant without an explanation for this issue. Have any of you resolved this? Has anyone seen this with stone undercover?

    • Utente-942777
      3 anni fa

      We have the same exact problem. The landscape designer came out to take a look and had never seen anything like it. She had no recommendations other than to rip it up and replace it at great cost with bluestone stair treads which apparently come in the same colors but the surface has a thermal finish that is less likely to peel or chip. At the moment, ours is covered in outdoor rugs.

    • PRO
      Jeff Klingel Landscape
      3 anni fa

      I did have some partially undercover but it all disintegrated the same. No definitive conclusion has been made but my guess is that it’s a bad vein in the quarry or it’s drying out too quickly.

    • summgardner
      3 anni fa

      I need to replace some chipped/broken bluestone in my large patio and am wondering if anyone has ever done this? The patio is about 30-35 yrs. old and portland cement was used. One mason want to use the polymetric mortar. Can anyone tell me what experience they had when their bluestone was replaced and how would polymetric work with old cement grout (how can I get the color to match?) and overall how will it look with new stones here and there with the old stone and old gray cement? It's way too expensive to replace the whole patio.

    • skihardorgohome
      3 anni fa

      I would not recommend polymeric over mortar, visually and structurally. You’ll have to do the entire patio.
      Chip up the grout joints with an orange-handled masonry chisel found at HD and use a grinder. Get a 1” & 3” chisel and start hammering. Free the stone completely from the joints, then use a sledgehammer to break up the bad material.

    • flgirl5
      3 anni fa

      @skihardorgohome how long should you wait to seal a new wet set bluestone patio or should you seal immediately? Is there effervescence or anything like that to cause you to wait to seal?

    • acanniz
      3 anni fa

      Same problem here in south Louisiana with bluestone slate. It constantly flakes away and now we’re missing big chunks of it. I have no idea what I should do.

    • PRO
      NOLAN BROTHERS STONEWORKS & Specialty Contracting
      3 anni fa

      I truly believe this is caused by salts from concrete slab.

    • thomas_crowley34
      3 anni fa

      @NolanBrothers. Interesting. My bluestone was put on top of an older concrete slab. I am wondering if other people who had this issue also had the bluestone on top of concrete. That would make more sense. Mine is flaking horribly and it is under a cover so not exposed to the elements. Never put salt on it either for any snow/ice that did get on it. So salt from the concrete underneath the stone would certainly make sense

    • Sandy Freiberg
      3 anni fa

      DITTO, Ditto, ditto our huge new patio here on the New England coast of Massachusetts. We assumed it was some of the salt spray/splash-over- but reading about all these other experiences, it seems it may not be related to salt.

      Misery loves company- so glad to know we are not alone. Contractor was not too phased- told me how normal it is. Wish he had mentioned it in advance.

    • wendywulf
      3 anni fa

      Same here in NY. I’m reading through the comments thinking oh well guess we’re stuck now. Ours is not over concrete and we don’t use anything on it nor do dogs do their business so it’s just the stone. I wonder how many years will it last. We got this done 3 yrs ago. https://www.instagram.com/p/BqPrmjDlqQP/?igshid=6q0s04o8uzzs

    • thomas_crowley34
      3 anni fa

      That is what mine looks like Wendy as well. What is weird with mine, is that even the pieces that still look good, when I walk on them, it's like there is almost a layer of air underneath the "top layer" if you will. So some of the bluestones haven't flaked yet, but there is some "give" to it. It's like degrading not from the top, but from just under the top (while the top still looks good), but it is just about to break through and flake awake the top.

    • Embothrium
      3 anni fa

      it's like there is almost a layer of air underneath

      See comment above about testing for hollowness at time of installation.

    • wendywulf
      3 anni fa

      Thomas yes mine like that too, like an air pocket, looks okay until it pops like a blister then slowly chips away. We used the blower the other day to clean off the surface so we’re not constantly getting it in our feet. Now we have gray dust all over the deck all the time on Trex brown decking and gets into our hot tub. I know I know- such problems lol but when you work hard then spend a lot on a patio it’s disappointing to have it fall apart. Was beautiful when we first had it done. I’ll ask the stone supplier Jeff Collins Stone Supply in Tremper NY and landscaper Ricardo Castro of Stone Ridge Landscapes about it and post their thoughts.
      My first thought was oh well we did pick flagstone but I’ve been on many flagstone patios in northeast area that aren’t flaked and are gorgeous so can’t be happening to all.

    • Utente-981184858
      2 anni fa

      I have a mid-century modern ranch house built in the early 50’s. The entire exterior is Ohio Bluestone. It chips or layers in spots on the west end of the house. The house is 70 yrs. old. My parents bought it in 2007 from the original owner, and I bought it from their estate in 2018. The original owner gave my dad a full pallet of replacement stones. The only time it was ever used was in some house renovations I did that moved a door and window on the back of the house. I don’t know how thick bluestone patios are, but I’m hoping and guessing that my house bluestone was much thicker and not touched or walked on ever. I would love to have someone’s opinion on whether I should have the house stone sealed, and if so, with what? Attached is a photo. It doesn’t show the colors in the stone, but gives an idea of what is looks like on a house.




    • wendywulf
      2 anni fa

      I looked into sealing our flagstone patio and the Landscaping co that installed it told me yes they can come snd seal it but then it would have to be done 1-2 yrs from then on. I’m not sure how the stone looks if it just wears off but by not and vertical better, most likely, but I would ask any masonry co for house examples you can look at that have been sealed before you do anything.

    • flgirl5
      2 anni fa

      Thank you! I agree that I am not sure if as the sealer wears off it that will look any better than an unsealed patio. I think I have decided for now to not seal. So far any stains that have gotten on the patio have disappeared after the sun and rain have hit it.

    • mrykbee
      2 anni fa

      Well, our 15 year old bluestone is chipping too but we do have 2 dogs and we did get lazy and salted it one winter. Is there anything we can do besides seal it (it was never sealed). It seems like we should be able to oil it or something..... I’m just living with it and concentrating on beautiful plants...

    • kathywahlund
      2 anni fa

      I’m in Woodstock NY. No salt is used and it is under cover. It is dry laid so no cement contamination and it is 7 years old. Looks bad!

    • kathywahlund
      2 anni fa

      These go with Woodstock post

    • yalemichmom
      2 anni fa

      Oh, how I wanted my natural bluestone patio...well, it now looks anything but "natural." It's a hot mess! Original landscaper installed and used polymeric sand because that was "best." He recommended not sealing it. Or, as he said, "Let it sit a year and then seal it if you want to." Very shortly after installation, stones started turning orange or had deep orange/rusty spots developing like a rash. The polymeric sand grout started popping up like worms after a rainstorm by year two. Hired a new hardscaping/landscaping company who--at year three of the patio--power washed it, swapped a few stones and tried to remove some stains, installed a new type of polymeric sand (which is supposedly better for the larger gaps the earlier landscaper used), and sealed it. First, the power washing did leave what looked like swirls of gray "graffiti" on some areas, but that seemed to go away with sealing. Until it rained, I wasn't sure they had yet sealed it, but it was evident when water beaded up and remained on the surface. After it dried, white patches appeared all over the stones. Reading how this can also occur with sealing concrete pavers, I'm now wondering if that composite deck idea was better! All I wanted was a beautiful, natural bluestone patio. I've stepped on countless university and college walkways that do not have these issues, and that is the look I was going for. How do they achieve such beautiful patios and walkways without the issues we homeowners face? I know they don't use polymeric sand and their "deep pockets" must be able to afford the best stone and best installers.



    • Blane Webster
      2 anni fa

      I live in Northern Illinois and I've had chipmunks burrowing under my bluestone walk and patio. The chipmunks leave golf ball sized trails under the bluestone so eventually moisture (from rain) builds up in their trails causing efflorescence and scaling on the surface of the stone. I had to remove all the areas of bluestone where this happened and fix it by filling, leveling and repacking the under laying bed. I scraped off the loose bluestone surface with a plastic trowel then scrubbed the surface with dish soap and water. Once I replaced the stone, I repacked the gaps with polymeric sand then resealed with a reputable sealant. This solved almost all the problems however the beautiful bluestone surface is permanently marred in the areas where tie scaling occurred.

    • nancyho77
      11 mesi fa
      Ultima modifica: 11 mesi fa

      I have a 25 yr old bluestone patio. just had it cleaned and sealed and now it is cracking and flaking like crazy. guess i am not alone. trying to figure out what to do now.







    • Cynthia Enright
      9 mesi fa

      Same thing is happening to ours. So frustrating. Apparently no one knows how to address this issue?

    • Simon
      3 mesi fa

      Similar issue with bluestone chipping, but found it interesting in the above comments that mention their bluestone is chipping / flaking where under cover. We had a dry laid patio put in a couple years ago w PA bluestone. Half is under a roof, and the rest extends into yard where it's under full sun & the elements. The half under cover is all flaking horribly, but all stone exposed to elements is fine. Same base layer (stone dust), same batch of bluestone. Must have something to do with being covered, possibly it doesn't dry out as well from sun? Odd, and very frustrating.

    • Vickie Harvey
      il mese scorso

      Same here in NJ. One year old bluestone patio has about a quarter of the stones, randomly placed, not adjacent to one another, flaking badly. Since it appears to be happening in several places, I now wonder if this is due to extreme changes in temperature? I am curious if this was a problem 10, 20, 30 years ago.

    • wendywulf
      il mese scorso

      I doubt it’s due to the weather because people living in a mild climate are having the same issue.

    • Utente-620274473
      il mese scorso

      hello we have a PA bluestone patio installed 2 years ago and are experiencing the same thing along with significant oxidizing

    • Utente-981184858
      il mese scorso

      I have a PA bluestone mid-century rancher. After seeing the face of the stones fall off in bits, pieces, and sometimes sheets, I researched PA Bluestone as a builiding material. What I heard from builders is different than what I read on builder and stone quarry sites. Online, the hardness and stability of bluestione is praised and highly recommended. The builders I talked to said that the stone was used extensively in the 50s but then they found out it had a problem with chipping, splitting, etc. They all said that it would never deteriorate to the point of creating moisture barrier problems, but it would look bad. While its use as a house siding material declined, it appears that it’s still being used extensively for patios/walk/etc. I did find an interesting technical post about bluestone —the benefits and pitfalls — and it seems to sum up the experience everyone on this post is having. https://www.jbconservation.com/blog/bluestone-blues Because it’s naturally created in layers, it’s strong but it flakes in layers.Because it contains natural calcite, the calcite leaches and causes scaling. etc. It doesn’t offer any concrete fixes, but it explains why we are seeing the various problems. Pollution, acid rain, climate are definite factors. It’s an interesting read.

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