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I would like to know if it is true what I have been told, that Rose Rosette Virus was released into the wild many years ago to kill the invasive farmland weed, Wild Rosa Multiflora? The story that I was told continues. It did not effectively kill the noxious Wild Rosa Multiflora, but popped up in home gardens, public rose landscape plantings, and commercial rose establishments, as we all well know that it has.
Moses.
Roseseek,
Thank you for your excellent clarification. Greatly appreciated.
I lost a venerable, much beloved Lady Ashe and at the same time, a geriatric, enormous Quietness a few years back to RRV. I think that with growing roses in some parts of the USA, contracting a round of RRV among one's roses is an inevitable rite of initiation.
Moses.
There was intentional spread of RRv by USDA folks (Maryland, into is in a plant pathology note) after the activities of Epstein and Hill at Iowa State.
Beef farmers in southern Iowa were trying to cheaply eradicate multiflora in their farms. Once rose rosette was found in one county in southern Iowa, it could be tested elsewhere in that state.
The first paper by Staple, Allington and Viehmeyer describes what they found in Nebraska, before the activity of Epstein and Hill. Epstein and Hill wrote in a juried publication that RRD seldom infected cultivated roses. IMO their four test plots were somewhat mis interpreted: several were eaten by hungry deer over winter, one may bave been destroyed by a flood and the other included Color Magic which seldom survives winter even in my warm zone.
Mark and a number of other scientists benefitted from USDA research funds. The scientists at U Arkansas are the ones who isolated it as a virus and who created the dendrograms that show its relation to other Ermara viruses named for the European Mountain Ash Ringspot Associated virus.
I'd place full faith in Ann's reporting as she's been THE "go to" person on the subject for far too many years to mention. Thank you, Ann.
Same here, no significant scent detected from my Pinkerbelle.
BTW,
I think that if Pinkerbelle had been given a more noble? name, like Choicest Friend, or whatever other name that would elicit a more dignified image, the rose would be more popular. Pinkerbelle........the name to me can't get a positive response, but the rose itself, a strong YES!
Moses.
@rosecanadian
I notice that many fragrant roses smell best on first day when opening in warm or hot weather. As it gets cooler in fall I see fragrance lessens and dissappears. . I used to not even smell my roses or just occassionally smell them. I think many roses have fragrances the common gardener does not notice, like me in the past. I think you really need to tune into smelling them and learning when they peak in fragrance to understand that particular rose fragrance.
Pinkerbelle may have a wonderful fragrance in warm weather, just as it starts opening, if caught at the right time.
I realize there is light, moderate & strong fragrances in roses. I am sure Pinkerbelle has some fragrance. I read it was strong & moderate, a Verbena-citrus scent. Love to check it out.
I smell many of my roses sonetimes daily, now, searching for scents. Would be fun to notice and identify different notes in their fragrances.
My interest in rose fragrance has been peaked by you, Carol! Thank you! A whole new world ”to find joy in fragrances has unfolded for me.”
Hopefully, Pinkerbelle will be a lovely fragrance we can enjoy!
Oh, I'm glad I could lead you by your nose. lol :) :) Rose fragrances are truly joyful, as you said. :) Yes, I'm hoping for a great fragrance from Pinkberbelle.
Houzz is a nightmare for some. I'm one of them. My internet system is not compatible with Houzz's. Composing here is daunting. Erased entries, duplicated paragraphs, horrible spell checks, etc., make me cringe.
About your chili thrips....I believe a conventional systemic insecticide sprayed faithfully, like Bio-Advanced Complete Insect Killer, $16.99, 40 oz. on Amazon, at 1 tbl./gal. water, sprayed every 10 days at first for a month and thereafter, every two weeks. Spray the entire bush, concentrating on new growth since the systemic nature of this insecticide does not travel to new, unsprayed (as yet), growth. It is translaminar so both leaf sides need not be sprayed, just the upper surfaces.
Organic and predatory insect remedies often are ineffective.
I'm in your age sphere, too. Keep positive!
Moses.
The organics and predatory insects work in text books. In the real world......let your experience educate you.
Get yourself an alkaline battery powered sprayer.
I have the Scott's, 2 gal. rechargeable @ $79.00. It works very satisfactorily, however some cons should be noted: It's a little heavy just empty, and top heavy (tips over too easily), but I do not carry it while spraying, just moving it by my side on the ground next to me, then I spray away. The spray force is a little weak even when well charged, but adequate.
If I was to replace my Scott's I would look at the Ryobi 1 gal. at $109.00, or Chapin's Autosprayer, 2 gal. at $89.97.
I must spray for: Saw Fly caterpillars, Cabbage Butterfly caterpillars, and after a year's+ respit, the much dreaded Rose Midge Fly maggots have seemingly returned. To control these three, I must spray from April to the end of September.
I wish you a successful victory in your battle against the chili thrip. I do not have this nasty one, but the reports from those who do are horrific.
BTW, I have ~60 rose bushes, counting the Drifts. That's plenty for me.
Moses.
Austin
It is unfortunate that you can not spray . Maybe beg a family member to do it ? or at least hire help to trim the damage ?
Ken,
St. Patrick is a black spotter here in my warm/humid summers, big time. It does hold its yellow color well. Hopefully, Chessie's BF lives were it's dry, in which case St. Patrick would be a good fit.
Moses.
I'm certainly taking notes. Yellow is the biggest color gap in my collection, and my sister loves yellow most of all so I have been wanting to find a few more good ones.
II loveI love South Africa but I have trouble getting a healthy one to growI All i have read says it is easy and strong…. but hey NOT FOR ME.
Karen,
Thanks for posting your favorable comments on True Gratitude and True Serenity. Since your summers are humid in your zone 7b, their performance here should be equally great.
My True Sincerity (not Serenity), has foliage that is almost cast iron regarding the dreaded black spot.
Moses.
What a wonderful surprise, Moses! Getting two healthy bushes in each pot at that price is a real win, especially with potted rose prices these days. If you do decide to separate them in spring, I'd give each one generous spacing since these True Bloom roses seem to grow bigger than their listed size. Either way, you have quite the reward for your gratitude to enjoy.
Markay,
I agree, late season black spot is inconsequential. As long as a bush makes it to the end of August with about 2/3 of its leaves clean, and just the bottom 1/3 are spotted or defoliated from black spot, AND that bush grew vigorously all summer long, it is OK in my estimation.
Your earlier photo of Sweet Spirit shows a fantastic bush in all regards.
Moses.
I agree with Moses, a rose that holds up to the end of summer is good enough here.
That pink rose behind Soul Sister could be Brindabella First Lady. This is a wild guess of mine, FWIW!
Moses.
Rosylady, I agree with you and roseseek that Tamora is a strong match — that soft peachy-orange color and compact, floribunda-like habit look very much like the three you already grow. Markay's note about Soul Sister and black spot is a useful warning too, since that kind of disease pressure would put me off in a humid summer as well. If you do try Tamora in that same spot, do you find it stays as short and tidy in your zone 8 garden as it does in the photo?
There used to be (may still be, I don't know) large mass beds of Tamora around the tempietto in the gardens at The Huntington Library. They were gorgeous and nearly always in bloom. And, they RUSTED like old iron skillets. So, if rust is an issue where you are, be forewarned. Tamora is one of the earlier Austins too closely descended from Conrad Ferdinand Meyer and its rust addicted Rugosa genes. I LOVE the rose and I refuse to allow it room in my yard because it WILL rust if your climate supports it.
Unless you are willing to spray aggressively with the organic controls or a little less aggressively using the conventional controls, for the dreaded black spot, and the less dreaded powdery and downy mildew, not to forget cercospora, your garden will look a hot mess growing those black spot magnets you listed.
Make your selections from ADR, A.R.T.S, and AGRS trialed/tested roses, and you will have a much easier time growing roses.
Moses.
Where do you garden, Patricia?
Moses.
Awesome! Best wishes to whatever roses you choose Double Delight! :-)
Kitty - exceptional blooms!! Both of them are incredibly beautiful!
Diane,
Thanks for the breakdown of your challenges. When I view your photos posted in the future, I'll see them in a different light, knowing how much effort and $$$ went into your exceptionally beautiful results. Keep inspiring me.
Jim,
DEO, Orange Dude, made great strides this year. Bloom after bloom showed what it can do if given top care. Let's hope this winter's hurdles are few.
Moses.
Thanks Moses! And Ditto!
It did frost last night 3rd one of the season so far...
The hoops I have to jump through to post are mind boggling. No other place on the web presents such obstacles for me. As AI progresses, hopefully Houzz will clean up its act.
Moses.
No problems yesterday, and since this was the first thread I read tonight, I jumped over to Jim's DEO thread and clicked to enlarge his new pic and hit like with no problems. I use a MacBook Air laptop and Safari as browser. No interest in using Houzz on my phone. But I have occasionally used my phone to quickly look up old threads by Googling them if I'm too lazy to drag out my laptop. Works fine, but it's read-only thing b/c I'm not registered via my phone here. Fig, I hope you get it worked out!
I only use a MacBook Pro computer, and have never had those kinds of problems.
Jackie
Elestrial,
At Ben's evaluation of the situation, why not order a Timeless Purple, a.k.a. Showpiece Berry, from Wal-Mart Online for $53.00 postage free? If you order it now you'll have it in 2-3 days. Of course, it will probably be own root, and not grafted on R. multiflora. Also, in your zone 7a, a fall planting may be dicey. If you have a winter storage place to hold it over until spring planting, at would work.
Moses.
Elestrial,
You never know how well your Timeless Purple will do for you under your care, in your garden. Don't let reports on its disease resistance worry you. Perhaps planting it in the new spot where you have the best air circulation there will help it better overcome its disease resistance shortfalls. I know that in my deep bed garden, 8'+ deep, the roses in the middle show more black spot than the same varieties growing closer to the front or at the back (the back's a chain link fence).
At any rate, I wish you great success with your Timeless Purple, a remarkably beautiful rose.
Moses.
BTW, my two, 2 gallon, True Bloom True Gratitudes came today. I'm rushed now, but will attend to them later after I return home from running errands. The one I opened has 5 blooms. They're small, but have the correct saturated color typical of True Gratitude. The bush itself is large and well grown. They were shipped from San Antonio, Texas, on Tuesday, and arrived here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on Friday, three days later. Not bad!
Yes, Elestrial, they were ordered from WAL-MART Online. They are 2 gallon size, and are really 2 gallon size bushes, not a gallon sized bush in a two gallon sized pot. They were $24.95 ea., free shipping after $35.00 order total, so I purchased 2, both needed.
Moses.
Carol - Wow, Purple Aura was one I was considering, yours looks beautiful. How is her fragrance and health? Your Sweet Madame Blue is also fantastic
I really like Lavender Crush's frgrance, and as an added bonus it wafts well too. Healthy. She is rather stiff though and hard to train, I have her on a tall, narrow trellis which was a mistake
Elestrial - thanks! It has a very nice clove or cinnamon scent, depending on the day. It was very healthy for me. Sweet Madame Blue is a tried and true rose here, and I heartily recommend it. :) Oh....that's why I've never thought about...it's a tall one. But...since it's stiff, that may be okay. Hmmm...I'll see if my regular place has it when the list comes out. :) Thanks!
Jim,
What wonderful news, Jim!
You have been spared a horrendous ordeal, because if your results were opposite findings, the treatment program you would most likely have gone through is barbaric, necessary to save life, but brutally barbaric.
Also, after all treatments are concluded, and have been successful, even to the state of a full cure, as I have been so blessed to receive, permanent, irreversible side effects of epic proportions because of the treatments must be faced, and reconciled with.
Don't get me wrong, Jim. I am eternally grateful to the doctors. They pulled out all the stops of extreme efforts as they administered their best medical care possible to me in order to save my life, but the treatments were brutally barbaric, and the permanent side effects almost beyond comprehension.
Thank God, you've been spared!
Moses.
Judi,
That path is extraordinarily beautiful. It's too spectacular to walk on! You're inspirational!
Plus: You're good with the camera. I can't take a picture to save my life, and I was an art teacher!
Moses.
Thank you Susan regarding the new Bababerry Raspberries. I am really hopeful on these.
Carol, here in the heat zone, I think the Caroline raspberries taste good, but seem smaller and overall do not seem as happy as my Boyne in Alaska.
Rasperries are very hardy is my point, and do better generally in cold areas Carol.
Here's hoping for my Bababerries. Of course, all these are irrigated here or it would be hopeless.
Wow Otterbon very nice Bouquets! :-)
LOL Carol, yes potato makes more sense...lol....
Enjoyed your photos & info Kitty! Very happy for you! Sounds awesome!
Spent time digging out sod in a circle today then dug a 2ft x 2ft hole to get ready for next Spring... Put some cow manure compost on the soil then covered with wood mulch... Tired me out...lol
My triangle will be a diamond next year...lol... I have to widen Oso Easy Double Reds circle it grew alittle larger than I thought...
This TYPE of rose will make the diamond.... True Passion....
Another rose will go here.... But undecided still what one....
I have to dig another hole yet on other side of yard for a 3rd undecided rose yet...
I have reviewed this two month old post and am pretty sure that I will give Peach Melba a go in 2027, Lord willing I am still around. I believe I would be follish not to give it a try.
AND, next year should see the reluctant return of my much dreaded every two week spray program from spring to autumn (about this time, mid-October- ish). The Rose Midge Fly seems to be back, and the devastation that saw fly and cabbage butterfly caterpillars have done to my fall flush is heart breaking......not to continue next year if I have a say in iit, and I do!
Moses.
I am so sorry, Moses. I didn't realize cabbage butterfly caterpillars damaged roses. Our Western cabbage caterpillars stick to what they're supposed to eat --cabbage and broccoli. You have to spray constantly, and I have to irrigate constantly--and spray deer repellent. What we rose growers go through to get our rose fix. Sorry the midge is back. Did you have extra hot weather? I don't know what attracts those pests. Diane
I finally planted peach Melba last week In a huge hole. She is so tall. I will report back in the spring on her winter hardiness. What a fabulous rose!
It's one I have had my eye on but haven't given in to the temptation yet.
I hope it turns out to be a great rose and would be very interested in any updates along the way.
Moses, how is your Julie Andrews doing?
Cynthia,
Thanks for your input, makes me feel important. Things are a little slow with most folks' roses now......the Roses Forum members appear to be occupied with other seasonal interests. Posting has fallen off considerably. Most people I know say that Autumn is their favorite season, and they must be out and about enjoying it. The new year should bring an uptake of activity Forum wise.
What impresses me the most in viewing the available photos of Brindabella Dawn is its remarkable similarity to my beloved Quietness in flower form and color. If it turns out to be a keeper, especially if it has black spot resistance equal to an ADR winner or a Knock Out, multiples of BD will probably go into my bed. Perhaps my aging/declining Quietnesses (~15 yrs. old now for the oldest two), will be outdone by Brindabella Dawn. Certainly Quietness has always had a fast-to-age bloom, as beautiful as it is. Its fragrance too, to my nose, is just a tad above moderate. Brindabella Dawn is supposed to be very fragrant.
Claudia,
My Julie Andrews definitely took. It's looking nice, not putting on new growth because the weather is closing in. There is one scrawny, unremarkable bloom on it, but not to worry.....that's typical for a young own root rose. My first fall frost date is just two weeks off.
If she looks even half as good as the outstanding photos I've seen of her I will be delighted.
Moses.
Thanks for checking with me Moses! Like many things with roses, my experiences with RRV have been a matter of managing rather than totally eliminating the problem.
For those of you unfamiliar with my recent RRV history, I had a massive pervasive spread of Rose Rosette in my garden that I detected too late. Our local public rose garden lost 90%+ of their roses to RRV the same year, and looking back it's possible that I could have conveyed that disease to my home garden after helping with the pruning. RRV expert Ann says that pruner or other mechanical transmission of RRV is slight however, so I don't know if the public garden timing was relevant. I combed my neighborhood to see if I could find a likely source and there really wasn't anything within a mile radius. Still, my garden was so infested with RRV that I ended up digging up all 850+ roses during 2022.
I left the garden fallow in 2023 and overwintered the new roses I'd bought in pots over that year. I have been planting roses again to refill those spots since then and I'm back over 1000 at this point. Yep, it's either dedicated or stupid, or both, but for me roses are the fun side of gardening, and gardening is an essential part of my life.
Back to Moses' question, I now am highly motivated and unfortunately highly experienced at recognizing RRV in my yard. I love the simple tips like "no larger canes should be growing out of smaller canes" that help me identify RRV and stop it before it gets established. I also love the successful reassurance of other knowledgeable gardeners that RRV travels down the cane in a progression and if you can catch it before it progresses you can stop the process in that rose. That means faithfully monitoring the ends of all my roses as I provide other maintenance, particularly the big roses and climbers that are more susceptible to catching those wind borne mites for RRV.
With that diligence, I've found clear indications of RRV at the tips of about 20 roses for sure, and another 20 that are maybes. Fortunately with cutting those canes down to the base as soon as I see it, and hair spraying the canes to bag and dispose, I haven't seen any recurrence on those affected roses. I now keep records of the roses for which I've seen one "strike" of RRV and if I ever get a second strike it's going to be dug out, however precious the rose. I'm to the point where this is such a relatively painless system that I cut back a cane if it looks suspicious because it doesn't hurt the rose and eases my mind.
What has been more troublesome and pervasive (and fatal) has been what I posted in another thread about what I now call "chlorotic ick", for lack of better identification. At largely random spots anywhere in the garden, I've seen roses have dramatically chlorotic foliage (outside of the usual chlorosis conditions) that are doomed to shrivel and die regardless of what I do once it gets started. Helpful contributors here on GW had suspected some new fertilizer from our rose society that might have trace elements clumped up but I've seen the effect on newly planted roses in 2026 that got no fertilizer, so that's not the primary or only cause I think. I'm still trying to get a soil test done but it's odd that one rose gets affected in the middle of perfectly healthy other roses, so it's not completely systemic. I dunno but I've lost at least 20 roses to chlorotic ick this year and several last year. I'll resurrect that thread if I get more information to share and ask for more theories of what this might be.
So the bottom line to your very thoughtful concern Moses is that in susceptible regions you're never done with monitoring for RRV. With watching for the signs and catching them early, there hasn't apparently been a spread that I can tell. A few roses are too tall for me to check the tips, and I'm going to have to take a ladder to check on the 10'+ monster canes of Peach Melba towering over an 8' arch to see if she's affected.
So far so good, and I'm finally enjoying a modest fall bloom on many roses as we're getting beyond the 90s here in LATE October - what is this? Halloween and 80 F with not a hint of frost warnings yet. Ah well, that's a topic for another time.
Cynthia