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satya_e_ping

Contractor/subcontractor ordered wrong cabinets

Tya
6 anni fa

Having a huge dilemma. We discussed painted plywood kitchen cabinets with our general contractor from the beginning. He knew we did not want melamine/particle board cabinets EVER. He put us in contact with his cabinet guy subcontractor who worked with us on design and first meeting verified the product came in plywood option and we would get that. Second meeting to finalize cabinets and colors there was no mention again of plywood vs particle board.
He placed the order and sent the order to contractor to approve which contractor did. We never were given anything to approve.
Cabinets delivered and they are melamine particle board! Now subcontractor is saying we verbally agreed to change it (we did not and we never would) and contractor saying he wasn't apart of conversation so doesn't know what was agreed or not agreed on.
no one is taking responsibility but saying we cannot return the cabinets or we have to go to court. I mean if we had to go to court if definitely would not be our fault right? We've preached plywood from beginning but its a he said she said. I just don't know why we have to pay for someone else mistake

Risposta in evidenza
  • PRO
    User
    6 anni fa

    This is confusing, because plywood is only used for boxes, not doors. Plywood with a melamine coating is an upgrade over just clear finished ply.

    Not sure that any of these construction specifications are clear to anyone. Or in any form of writing.



    Commenti (27)

    • beachem
      6 anni fa

      Did you have a quote in writing or documented anything? I would go to court but I always documented and confirm with a text especially on details.

      Construction is one of the worst industry to deal with in terms of slack, bad work, and so on.

    • cpartist
      6 anni fa

      What does the contract you signed say the cabinets are?

    • PRO
      Anglophilia
      6 anni fa

      If it's not in writing, you don't have a leg to stand on. And I'm betting that's what they're counting on by not accepting responsibility for the ordering error.

    • PRO
      Joseph Corlett, LLC
      6 anni fa

      I'm not getting the MDF aversion. The cabinets are fine.

    • cluelessincolorado
      6 anni fa
      Ultima modifica: 6 anni fa

      It's not a question of aversion, but who is the responsible party. Unfortunately, it sounds like this one is going to be hard to prove. BUMMER

    • PRO
      Joseph Corlett, LLC
      6 anni fa
      Ultima modifica: 6 anni fa

      It certainly is a question of aversion; irrational I may add. (You're squishing wood together either way.) If there is nothing wrong with particle board cabinets, and there isn't, there is only a problem of adjusting the price and proceeding with the project.

    • lyfia
      6 anni fa

      Joseph - if you melamine and you expect a painted product I think there is quite a difference though.


      Do you have the painted part somewhere in a contract. I mean if they got you melamine and the idea was to paint then that is another point of contention. Can't paint the melamine very easily and have a good long lasting result.

    • eam44
      6 anni fa
      Ultima modifica: 6 anni fa

      Well... yes and no, Joe. I have no problem with mdf of a proper thickness in a well made cabinet. I also expect the people who work with me to do what they say they're going to do. You would never charge someone for Corian and then you install a generic product; it might all be the same acrylic mixed with ATH, but if it's not what your client wants, you're not going to do it.

      For the record, my cabinets are IKEA (mdf) and will have solid wood doors, and I'm absolutely going for the least expensive solid surface I can find installed by the best installer I can find - I'm spending my money on the artisan ;-)

      You've been wronged. The question is how best to get the kitchen you want under these circumstances. You might have to compromise. If so, I would focus on getting plywood doors and end panels out of these bozos for the reasons lyfia mentions.

    • PRO
      Joseph Corlett, LLC
      6 anni fa

      I'm not begrudging anyone their feelings. I'd feel pretty dang good if I got a hell of a deal on my cabinets because of someone else's screw-up.

    • beachem
      6 anni fa

      The problem might be the OP paid for painted wood doors and plywood cabinets but got melanine doors and particle board cabinets.

    • millworkman
      6 anni fa

      "The problem might be the OP paid for painted wood doors and plywood cabinets but got melanine doors and particle board cabinets."


      But did she pay for wood? Verbal conversations and nothing in writing he may have priced MDF from the very beginning..................

    • hjk73
      6 anni fa

      What does your contract/receipt say? If it says plywood, the burden is on the sub to prove otherwise. If it is silent, you need to gather all written communication and see if there is any mention of plywood requirement. I wouldn't accept them/ install until you reach a resolution.

    • PRO
      Scherr's Cabinets & Doors Inc
      6 anni fa

      This is important for people to know!

      It seems like the problem may have arisen from different parties involved having different definitions of "plywood." This is not to say anything at all about how people acted once the problem was realized.

      Plywood has taken on a different definition over the years. (This is not to say that the official definition of plywood has changed...) At one point in time plywood unequivocally meant thin layers of wood with their grain patterns oriented in alternating perpendicular directions. This is a definition I can agree with. We have been involved with the cabinet making industry for decades and we've seen the term plywood getting used more and more as a catch-all term, especially since many engineered sheet goods are using several different types of cores within a single sheet of material. Perhaps your contractor initially understood you, but when they used the term plywood with their supplier (and I can especially see this happening with cabinet makers), it maybe didn't register that it was being used as the exclusionary expression "not particleboard", "not melamine."

      We've experienced this confusion between suppliers and customers quite a bit. We don't necessarily like or agree with any aspect of the evolution of these terms - but it's nonetheless important for people to be vigilant about it, especially when it concerns your kitchen cabinets!


    • Mrs. S
      6 anni fa

      If none of this is in writing, I'd say you have a very good chance in court. How much would the licensed GC like to charge you for something you did not order and did not agree to?

    • PRO
      R J Hoppe Inc
      6 anni fa

      I could add a bunch of opinion to the materials side of the post but me thinks that there is some information missing regarding conversations between contractor cabinet maker and client. Those conversations probably involve price points. Otherwise it is 50/50. Roll the dice he said she said.

    • Tya
      Autore originale
      6 anni fa
      Hi everyone thanks for the input.

      Prior to signing with general contractor (GC) we held up signing to confirm that cabinets per our design and quote from another company would be able to do within 14k budget GC had. We send our original quote to GC and sub and had the meeting and they came back and told us they would be able to do at 14k and under. We have multiple email with GC saying melamine boxes would be one price and us saying we want plywood.

      Per the actual contract under cabinets it just says 14k allowance.

      We never signed anything regarding what was to be ordered or did we receive a purchase order to review.
    • Tya
      Autore originale
      6 anni fa

      And regarding melamine particle board vs plywood. I don't doubt that they are both good quality. But we requested plywood for the slight advantage of durability and definitely wanted painted cabinets for the ability to refinish repaint in the future. This was our "forever" home and we had planned to never do any of this for a very lonnnngggg time.


      as far as being confused regarding particle board/ plywood on cabinet side we made sure during first meeting that we ask if it was available in plywood and confirmed it usually came in particle board but plywood option.

    • PRO
      User
      6 anni fa


      Plywood vs Furniture Board · Maggiori informazioni

      You may be interested in real life where moisture damaged the plywood far more than the furniture board. Both cabinet side walls, straight off the production line.

      However, the fact that furniture board actually performed better, doesn't mean anything if you didn't agree to that specification in writing.


      Also, any cabinet can be painted down the road if you want to repaint. That includes wood cabinets, and factory finished cabinets of any kind. The conversion finish is really tough, but can be scuff sanded just like any other finish. With the right sandpaper.

    • Fori
      6 anni fa

      Forget about plywood vs particle board, though. Melamine and paint are two very different, not remotely equivalent things. So before we accuse our OP of being a materials snob, perhaps we can agree that the finish is absolutely not what was requested.

      You can sort of compromise on the cabinet case materials, but the bigger concern is that THESE ARE NOT PAINTED CABINETS.

      (That said, please confirm, are these actually melamine cabinets? I know we're all throwing around terms. Melamine interiors are kind of nice. Melamine exteriors are not--at least not if you wanted a painted finish.)

    • jellytoast
      6 anni fa

      If you have multiple emails with the GC stating that you want plywood cabinets, why is it a "he said/she said" scenario? It appears that you did specify one thing (in writing!) and he ordered something else.

    • freeoscar
      6 anni fa

      I'm no lawyer, but if you have the written communication saying plywood, and he claims there was a verbal adjustment to that order, I'd think you have the much stronger case.

    • Sammy
      6 anni fa

      "...moisture damaged the plywood far more than the furniture board...furniture board actually performed better..."

      @The Cook's Kitchen: Are those statements based on the picture you posted? If so, please explain.

    • PRO
      Carolina Kitchen & Bath
      6 anni fa

      Answer a few questions: By "plywood option," do you mean that the sides, back and bottom of the box is plywood?


      Most cabinet lines only use hardwood like maple or oak for the faceframe. That's the part the door touches when it closes. Do these cabinets have a hardwood faceframe?


      You mention melamine. Do you mean that the door has a substrate with melamine (which is like Formica) laminated on top?

      Are you using the word melamine to describe the veneer on the sides, back and bottom of the cabinet?

      These terms have been thrown around and I want to get a clear idea of what you mean. I hope you'll take the time to answer.



    • PRO
      Carolina Kitchen & Bath
      6 anni fa

      BTW, can you post a picture of the offending cabinet? Inside and outside shots.

    • Tya
      Autore originale
      6 anni fa

      Hi the cabinets are katana frameless cabinets. The box itself that the doors touch are particle board with melamine strips attached to the front. Inside is melamine also.

      i don't have good pictures yet because mostly cabinets still covered and in boxes waiting to be installed. This is the damage parts we took pics of


    • PRO
      Carolina Kitchen & Bath
      6 anni fa

      Do you have any photos or promotional material that shows the cabinets you thought you were getting?

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